tortoise
Aug 23, 03:04 PM
Do you have a reference showing that this translates to better performance in real-world application tests in a head to head competition?
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
Not handy, since a lot of this happened on mailing lists.
The short version is that the memory performance scales in a very sub-linear fashion as a function of the number of cores being used, whereas Opteron scalability is almost linear up to a large number of cores. The good news is that for single dual-core processors the memory performance is on par with dual-core Opterons and their in-cache performance can be better. The bad news is that this performance does not hold as you scale cores in a system. So for some applications (e.g. those that live mostly in cache) the Woodcrest processors will be mildly faster than Opterons, but for most the performance is about even in real app benchmarks.
I've seen fairly comprehensive benchmarks for both databases and scientific computing applications, both of which thoroughly exercise the memory subsystem. Even though a single Intel core theoretically has more bandwidth, the high latency means that the real bandwidth is about the same as the slower Opterons (which have real bandwidth that approaches theoretical) and the cross-sectional bandwidth of Opterons when you get up to 4 cores and higher is much higher since the scaling is almost linear with the number of cores. For Intel, I think it was the case that a bigger cache was a cheaper design choice than a truly scalable memory subsystem. As a result, they will have different competencies. Some types of floating point codes should run very well on Intel.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 01:59 PM
Hell I have only now seen 3G phones that can handle UTMS ( Japan).
Hmmm, I dumped/retired my first UTMS cellphone more than a year ago... and I live in Sweden. Moreover, Japan have had UTMS phones longer than in Sweden
Hmmm, I dumped/retired my first UTMS cellphone more than a year ago... and I live in Sweden. Moreover, Japan have had UTMS phones longer than in Sweden
Tomaz
Aug 7, 07:10 PM
Did anyone else think it was odd that many of the features seemed so poorly presented. We didn't actually get to see anything new in Spotlight. And no new features of the actual Dashboard were even discussed.
It just doesn't seem that Leopard is as far along as Tiger was when previewed even though Leopard is suppose to ship in the spring just as Tiger did.
Maybe they moved the spotlight bar to the top left and don't want MS to do the same before the Vista release ;)
It just doesn't seem that Leopard is as far along as Tiger was when previewed even though Leopard is suppose to ship in the spring just as Tiger did.
Maybe they moved the spotlight bar to the top left and don't want MS to do the same before the Vista release ;)
stephenli
Nov 28, 08:21 PM
If this happens, I will proudly use Bit Torrent and pirate all Universal music that I want. Right now I use itunes because the price scheme is perfect. Universal is making a big mistake.
Yes, ppl pay for their music, how come we should also pay them by purchasing an iPod?!
by the way, I still havent purchase any song in iTunes Store under Universal music label....then WHY SHOULD THEY CHARGE IT ON IPOD?!
Yes, ppl pay for their music, how come we should also pay them by purchasing an iPod?!
by the way, I still havent purchase any song in iTunes Store under Universal music label....then WHY SHOULD THEY CHARGE IT ON IPOD?!
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 12:26 PM
CDMA is the only practical option for those of us who travel.
Travel within US perhaps. Still, you might be correct, even though I have seen posts that claims the opposite. Vz reluctance to give GSM a chance is big roadblock for you guys to get decent roaming. I use my european triband (900,1800,1900) when I fly over. I spend about 2 months per year in US. So far I havent had any problems getting connection. OK, you have some dropped calls when you drive in less populated areas. But that is reallly nothing to get upset about. Better to just redial the number than popping a vein in vain. :p
Still, life would be so much simpler for you if you at least tried to agree on one standard within your own country. Free enterprise has few, but really really annoying drawbacks.
Travel within US perhaps. Still, you might be correct, even though I have seen posts that claims the opposite. Vz reluctance to give GSM a chance is big roadblock for you guys to get decent roaming. I use my european triband (900,1800,1900) when I fly over. I spend about 2 months per year in US. So far I havent had any problems getting connection. OK, you have some dropped calls when you drive in less populated areas. But that is reallly nothing to get upset about. Better to just redial the number than popping a vein in vain. :p
Still, life would be so much simpler for you if you at least tried to agree on one standard within your own country. Free enterprise has few, but really really annoying drawbacks.
toddybody
Apr 6, 11:25 AM
I bet you that you'll never see a iPad with screen resolution like 2048x1536, it's a ****ing nightmare to iOS developers. You don't understand that it's ****ing crazy, iOS interface like MacOS X interface is not scalable. Apple have to change the whole GUI before making this step forward.
what did Apple do with the iP4? Oh wait...
As far as Devs are concerned, they 2x the res for their ease. Sorry, its not that "****ing crazy". Oh, and before someone says "well theres not going to be a mobile GPU that could handle that res"; not true, even now theres some great emerging technologies that have handled concurrent instances of 1080p (like 10 displays)...much less whats going to be available in 2012(if we survive the world ending:) Furthermore, native apps like iBooks/iTunes/etc dont require heavy processing to display hi res. Sorry man, youre wrong.
PS: Take it easy on the *
what did Apple do with the iP4? Oh wait...
As far as Devs are concerned, they 2x the res for their ease. Sorry, its not that "****ing crazy". Oh, and before someone says "well theres not going to be a mobile GPU that could handle that res"; not true, even now theres some great emerging technologies that have handled concurrent instances of 1080p (like 10 displays)...much less whats going to be available in 2012(if we survive the world ending:) Furthermore, native apps like iBooks/iTunes/etc dont require heavy processing to display hi res. Sorry man, youre wrong.
PS: Take it easy on the *
michaelrjohnson
Aug 7, 04:46 PM
So the cat won't be out of the bag until Spring 2007?
I thought Leopard was slated for December?
Maybe that means it will actually be launched at MWSF in January ...
January is not Spring. Do not expect a release in January; Expect a full-featured preview, with an announcement of a final shipping-date.
I thought Leopard was slated for December?
Maybe that means it will actually be launched at MWSF in January ...
January is not Spring. Do not expect a release in January; Expect a full-featured preview, with an announcement of a final shipping-date.
koobcamuk
Mar 25, 10:36 PM
Since the release of Leopard, the subsequent releases haven't had the wow factor of before.
Just what I think anyway.
I agree entirely.
I also think 10.4.11 is the best OS ever.
Just what I think anyway.
I agree entirely.
I also think 10.4.11 is the best OS ever.
milo
Jul 27, 04:07 PM
They will not replace the dual core version, they will exist as an additional product offering.
I never said otherwise. My point is they are the follow-ups to conroe and woodcrest and will use the same sockets as those two. Which means they can be swapped in, which I believe was the original question.
I never said otherwise. My point is they are the follow-ups to conroe and woodcrest and will use the same sockets as those two. Which means they can be swapped in, which I believe was the original question.
Dark K
Jun 15, 04:03 PM
Same situation here, only guy that was pre ordering on my local RS, they couldn't enter the reservation, I talked to them and finally decided to come the 24th very early to get my phone without reserving it, I have to say that RS is a mess with reservation, I can't imagine if there were more people reserving today.
I am happy though, the town where I live, when it comes to apple stuff, it is ghost town, so I kinda bet that it will be me plus a maximum of 4 people atleast on launch day.
I am happy though, the town where I live, when it comes to apple stuff, it is ghost town, so I kinda bet that it will be me plus a maximum of 4 people atleast on launch day.
Mattie Num Nums
Mar 31, 02:23 PM
This is a smart move. It had to happen sooner or later.
John Gruber's take:
Can't say I disagree.
John Gruber would eat Steve Job's ***** if he could. His opinion is extremely biased.
John Gruber's take:
Can't say I disagree.
John Gruber would eat Steve Job's ***** if he could. His opinion is extremely biased.
digitalbiker
Aug 25, 09:51 PM
I thought apple was supposed to be better at support than dell?
I have always exected Dell's support to be top notch and they have never let me down. However,I always paid for the upgraded 3 year support and I have never used the standard 1 year support. I also have always paid for Apple's 3 year AppleCare. In my opinion there is no comparison. Dell is better.
This is one reason I thought that previous surveys always rated Apple too high. The only explaination I could think of that made sense is that Apple has a tremendously loyal fan base. I think this fan base gives Apple rosey numbers and exagerates Apple's support response. Now that Apple marketshare has grown some, I think these users are seeing that it ain't so rosey red at Apple.
I have always exected Dell's support to be top notch and they have never let me down. However,I always paid for the upgraded 3 year support and I have never used the standard 1 year support. I also have always paid for Apple's 3 year AppleCare. In my opinion there is no comparison. Dell is better.
This is one reason I thought that previous surveys always rated Apple too high. The only explaination I could think of that made sense is that Apple has a tremendously loyal fan base. I think this fan base gives Apple rosey numbers and exagerates Apple's support response. Now that Apple marketshare has grown some, I think these users are seeing that it ain't so rosey red at Apple.
skunk
Mar 1, 04:18 PM
Ah, let us define slavery, does: "slavery is the condition of involuntary servitude in which a human being is regarded as no more than the property of another, as being without basic human rights; in other words, as a thing rather than a person" work for you?No, not really. Why is this relevant?
But they are treated equal, any gay man can marry a woman and any lesbian woman can marry a man just as any heterosexual man can marry a woman and any heterosexual woman can marry a manThey are not permitted to marry their chosen partner, so no, this is again complete bollocks.
Nay, the Romans and Greeks failed, they are retrogressRetrogress is a verb, and they were not retrograde, on the contrary they were very progressive in many respects.
In short, your cogency is significantly inferior to Lee's.
But they are treated equal, any gay man can marry a woman and any lesbian woman can marry a man just as any heterosexual man can marry a woman and any heterosexual woman can marry a manThey are not permitted to marry their chosen partner, so no, this is again complete bollocks.
Nay, the Romans and Greeks failed, they are retrogressRetrogress is a verb, and they were not retrograde, on the contrary they were very progressive in many respects.
In short, your cogency is significantly inferior to Lee's.
DPazdanISU
Sep 19, 06:50 AM
excellent, isn't the core 2 duo 64bit? if it is then I would like to buy one over the current models for sure
(i'm going for a macbook not pro)
(i'm going for a macbook not pro)
tartufo
Apr 12, 08:27 AM
I am Sorry but I have to say something here. your ignorance amuses me.
William Morris#39;s wallpaper
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macaddiict
Apr 25, 01:38 PM
money grubbers
I agree, Apple is pretty ridiculous at times.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
I agree, Apple is pretty ridiculous at times.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
aohus
Apr 19, 01:52 PM
wow @ post 2.
apple will have a hard time fighting this in court.
apple will have a hard time fighting this in court.
birch25
Mar 26, 07:10 AM
2) $129 is too much. This one cracks me up. Apple is bundling a $500 product into the OS (and other OS based servers are far more expensive) and people think $129 is too much?
They added a $500 product that the vast majority of users will never use and don't even know is there. For some people, this will be a steal, but most users will get zero value out of the feature.
They added a $500 product that the vast majority of users will never use and don't even know is there. For some people, this will be a steal, but most users will get zero value out of the feature.
Super Dave
Aug 8, 12:50 AM
Also a very good point, so I need a bigger main HD for my MacBookPro (the new Seagate 160GB becomes interesting) for Time Machine, but i still need to back the hole thing up to an external HD in case of a HD crash (I had 2 in the last 8 months!). So Tine Machine doesn't make Backups obsolete, I didn't even think of that up to now. Hmmm..
Time Machine is backup, it's not for on the same drive (or nothing implied it was).
David :cool:
Time Machine is backup, it's not for on the same drive (or nothing implied it was).
David :cool:
Kristenn
Mar 31, 10:33 PM
Good. I hope they take one of the last strengths of the iPad ecosystem away from it.
Wow, your username might be Full of Win (lol...) But this post is Full of Fail!
Care to explain? I mean, I don't get it. It seems like only the iHaters would understand this post or just pretend to so they can shout I AGREE!
I'm serious. Explain, please?
Wow, your username might be Full of Win (lol...) But this post is Full of Fail!
Care to explain? I mean, I don't get it. It seems like only the iHaters would understand this post or just pretend to so they can shout I AGREE!
I'm serious. Explain, please?
yoak
Apr 10, 02:04 PM
It will be very interesting to see what it will be like. I just hope that it will be able to take advantage of all the power of my old MP. I feel pretty confident it will.
It�s interesting that the software takes 3 years to catch up with the hardware. It just crossed my mind that they might have tried all a long to release the new FCS and Thunderbolt at the same time.
Otherwise there really would be no reason to upgrade your hardware as it suddenly will be handle your software faster than when you bought it
It�s interesting that the software takes 3 years to catch up with the hardware. It just crossed my mind that they might have tried all a long to release the new FCS and Thunderbolt at the same time.
Otherwise there really would be no reason to upgrade your hardware as it suddenly will be handle your software faster than when you bought it
JFreak
Aug 19, 03:11 AM
this kinds of benchmarks show clearly that the world is not yet ready for Universally Better appplications. Quad G5 still rocks as a production system, but it would surely be nice to give those new Mac Pro's a test drive; however, it would be rather lame, as not nearly all audio plugins have been converted. For myself -- for that very reason -- the Intel-era begins in 2008 at the earliest. I want zero crashes when I mix.
aegisdesign
Sep 13, 11:40 AM
Most people run more than one app at once.
Yes, that's true.
It's also true that most of the time, most people aren't even maxing out ONE core never mind eight.
And when they do, their program won't get any faster unless it's multithreaded and able to run on multiple cores at once.
Yes, that's true.
It's also true that most of the time, most people aren't even maxing out ONE core never mind eight.
And when they do, their program won't get any faster unless it's multithreaded and able to run on multiple cores at once.
Multimedia
Aug 17, 12:01 PM
when cs 3 comes out, which will be sometime in the spring of 2007 according to macworld magazine, the mac pro will be "hands down" the best machine across the board on "all" benchmarks concerning adobe software
let's hope we get cs 3 sooner rather than later in 2007 because i would hate to wait until late march
pc world, september issue, mentioned amd's plan for a quad core processor in 2007 and if that happens, some pc box will be faster than our best xeon powered machines...that is, he he, unless we get that quad core K8L amd with their 4x4 motherboard architecture which would enable a desktop to run two quads for a total of 8 amd cores (but the price of such a machine will debut at a very high price and probably won't directly compete with the mac pro)
but for now, apple has the best pro desktop machine dollar for dollar that i have seen and with cs 3 next year, it will be a designer's dream machine better than anything out there in its price range...at least for a few months ;)I think Apple will add a Dual Clovertown processor option to the Mac Pro BTO page as soon as they can get them. I'm thinking it will be about a $1k option - Minus Two Woodcrests Plus Two Clovertowns = about $1k I thiink.Um....that's why intel has quad core chips coming out...starting in *2006*
On the Xeon side, Clovertown, on the consumer side, Kentsfield. Sometime in the first half of 2007 I believe we'll see Tigerton, which will be an even more formidable quad core xeon, capable of more than 2 processor configurations- so if apple gets a 3 socket logic board, or a 4 socket one, we could have 12 or 16 cores.I'll settle for Dual Clovertown or perhaps a Quad Tigerton - if it's only $2k more - when Leopard ships on board next Spring. :)
So I'm thinking the Dual Clovertown OctoCore will cost about $4,000 plus ram and the Sixteen Core Tigerton Setup about $6,000 plus ram. Is that a fair guess?
let's hope we get cs 3 sooner rather than later in 2007 because i would hate to wait until late march
pc world, september issue, mentioned amd's plan for a quad core processor in 2007 and if that happens, some pc box will be faster than our best xeon powered machines...that is, he he, unless we get that quad core K8L amd with their 4x4 motherboard architecture which would enable a desktop to run two quads for a total of 8 amd cores (but the price of such a machine will debut at a very high price and probably won't directly compete with the mac pro)
but for now, apple has the best pro desktop machine dollar for dollar that i have seen and with cs 3 next year, it will be a designer's dream machine better than anything out there in its price range...at least for a few months ;)I think Apple will add a Dual Clovertown processor option to the Mac Pro BTO page as soon as they can get them. I'm thinking it will be about a $1k option - Minus Two Woodcrests Plus Two Clovertowns = about $1k I thiink.Um....that's why intel has quad core chips coming out...starting in *2006*
On the Xeon side, Clovertown, on the consumer side, Kentsfield. Sometime in the first half of 2007 I believe we'll see Tigerton, which will be an even more formidable quad core xeon, capable of more than 2 processor configurations- so if apple gets a 3 socket logic board, or a 4 socket one, we could have 12 or 16 cores.I'll settle for Dual Clovertown or perhaps a Quad Tigerton - if it's only $2k more - when Leopard ships on board next Spring. :)
So I'm thinking the Dual Clovertown OctoCore will cost about $4,000 plus ram and the Sixteen Core Tigerton Setup about $6,000 plus ram. Is that a fair guess?
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